Episode 34: How to Make SEO Niche Content in 2019

Niche content for your industry!

Paul Warren:                     Hi, I’m Paul Warren.

Ryan Klein:                         And I’m Ryan Klein.

Paul Warren:                     And this is another episode of SEO is Dead and Other Lies. Ryan, how are you doing today?

Ryan Klein:                         I’m doing pretty well. I couldn’t believe you didn’t want to come over earlier.

Paul Warren:                     Well I’m here. That’s how much I wanted to do it.

Ryan Klein:                         What were you worried about? Just bringing over your whole iMac?

Paul Warren:                     No, I had other work I had to do too, other projects, other things.

Ryan Klein:                         Pretty sure this is all you do.

Paul Warren:                     Well, you know what? We have a great episode planned tonight. We’ve really thoroughly planned all of this and we have a great guest. Ryan, introduce your guest to us.

Ryan Klein:                         Hey, what’s up, Jared?

Jared Smith:                       Hey, how you doing, Ryan?

Ryan Klein:                         Pretty good, man. I’m just really glad that you’re here and you’re podcasting with us. I didn’t know if it was going to happen, but here we are.

Jared Smith:                       Yes, thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m a big fan.

Ryan Klein:                         You are. You listen to one podcast that we’re actually super-proud of.

Jared Smith:                       Wow.

Paul Warren:                     Which one was that?

Jared Smith:                       I told him I listen to the freelance episode, like how to be a freelance [crosstalk 00:01:09]

Paul Warren:                     Oh, I like that one.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, because I’m trying to take your guys’ clients. I’m kidding.

Paul Warren:                     Oh. That doesn’t even make any sense.

Ryan Klein:                         We said in the episode, “Don’t take our clients,” though.

Jared Smith:                       Aw, that is right.

Paul Warren:                     Whatever you do. Don’t do that. Well hopefully you picked up a couple of tidbits because I actually didn’t like that one. I thought it was very [crosstalk 00:01:25]

Ryan Klein:                         Did you get any clients?

Jared Smith:                       No, I haven’t tried.

Ryan Klein:                         Damn it!

Jared Smith:                       I haven’t tried yet, but I realized some of it was way over my head. You guys are smarter than me.

Ryan Klein:                         Oh, get him the hell out of here.

Paul Warren:                     So, what are we chatting about tonight?

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, Ryan.

Ryan Klein:                         So, you’re both looking at me. Like off of the camera. Yeah, they both were looking at me.

Jared Smith:                       You guys film this, right?

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah. Actually we filmed the last one, but-

Intro:                                     It’s livestream.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, it got deleted.

Intro:                                     Just kidding.

Ryan Klein:                         So in the spirit of interviewing, what we’re going to do is Jared’s going to talk about 90% of the time, and then we’re just going to ask a bunch of trivial questions, probably unrelated to his job, and he’s just going to answer everything.

Jared Smith:                       I do not want that to happen. But let’s see.

Ryan Klein:                         No, in all reality what we’re going to talk about, and hopefully it goes well and don’t stop listening now, is we’re going to interview Jared, because he is in a senior position, if not the highest position, at his respective company in charge of the content for everything.

Jared Smith:                       Yes. I’m the SEO and content strategist, the official title for Host Time. It is a data center infrastructure company. We’re in seven locations, but before that I created a music publication called Too Good For Radio.

Ryan Klein:                         Oh, that’s awesome!

Jared Smith:                       Yeah.

Ryan Klein:                         We’re not talking about that though.

Jared Smith:                       We’re not talking about that, though.

Ryan Klein:                         I feel like [inaudible 00:02:40] coming out of here already. We’re not talking about the cool thing you used to do.

Paul Warren:                     The reason that Jared’s here right now, besides that he’s, I guess, pretty cool guy that likes the Patriots, is that he in charge of SEO in content, and that’s a big deal for how big the company is. So the first question is, are you the only person in charge of this perceivably huge role for this company?

Jared Smith:                       Yes. I cover 100% of the content for both. So there’s a Host Time blog where I try to write three articles a week related to the web hosting industry. And I also do the hosttime.com side, which is all of the product, the landing pages, essentially trying to get the customer to the shopping cart.

Ryan Klein:                         I told you this was going to be a good podcast.

Intro:                                     Right.

Ryan Klein:                         Paul was like, “I don’t really think that’ll really sure.”

Paul Warren:                     But you know what? This is fantastic.

Jared Smith:                       I’m still on Paul’s side.

Ryan Klein:                         About what not, you won’t even talk about-

Paul Warren:                     I’m not on my side any more. I’m on Ryan’s.

Jared Smith:                       But I brought up that other, that Too Good For Radio thing, because I wrote 500 articles for that stupid little thing.

Ryan Klein:                         Super don’t care. No, I’m just [crosstalk 00:03:47]. No, that’s cool.

Jared Smith:                       So that’s how I learned content essentially. What people are interested in and what they’re not, what ranks, what doesn’t?

Ryan Klein:                         Why don’t you walk us through your process for doing that?

Jared Smith:                       Say that again?

Ryan Klein:                         I’ll start there.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so, essentially you’re trying to solve for a problem. But nowadays, when you type into Google, what do you do? You’re pretty much asking a question like which-

Ryan Klein:                         “Google: ‘pornography’, go.”

Jared Smith:                       Now.

Ryan Klein:                         Best boobies.

Jared Smith:                       But no, it’s kind of just, “which toothbrush is the best to prevent cavities” or something. And so you write towards that and that’s kind of… When I had music, that was easy. People like to read about music to get the latest songs. Web hosting. When was the last time you Googled the web hosting industry, wanting to know the ins and outs? So it’s a bit more difficult to try to get people’s attention and what people are asking for that. Trying to do it.

Paul Warren:                     Generally, when Ryan and I are Googling web hosting-

Ryan Klein:                         I already know what the keywords are.

Paul Warren:                     We’re looking for really cheapest-

Jared Smith:                       Cheapest host.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, we’re trying to build a really black hat, link building network, and we just want those cheap entry teaser rates.

Ryan Klein:                         We’re trying to find somehow someone overseas got their hands on a server actually in this space. and I want to pay about $1.49.

Jared Smith:                       What is your web host of choice? That’s a good topic.

Ryan Klein:                         Right now?

Jared Smith:                       I mean yeah. I assume you guys have a bunch of websites between the two of you.

Ryan Klein:                         Actually, I really didn’t know you were doing an interview with us right now.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, it’s my show now.

Paul Warren:                     This is what this feels like. I don’t like it.

Ryan Klein:                         So before you ever ask us a question ever again, I’m going to indulge you and I’ll say that we only do WordPress hosting. If it’s PBN, we’re not going to go there. But if it’s actual, a website for clients-

Jared Smith:                       Like you care about.

Ryan Klein:                         it’s either going to be Media Temple or it’s going to be a WP engine.

Paul Warren:                     I’ve been using ATU Hosting and I actually like them.

Ryan Klein:                         You like ATU hosting? What the hell?

Jared Smith:                       Well they’ve been around a long time.

Paul Warren:                     I really don’t like, what’s the one that everyone kind of starts out with?

Jared Smith:                       GoDaddy’s the most famous.

Paul Warren:                     Well not GoDaddy. The other one. We’ve used it before.

Ryan Klein:                         HostGator?

Paul Warren:                     HostGator, I hate HostGator.

Ryan Klein:                         A small orange. Not just the small orange.

Jared Smith:                       A small orange.

Ryan Klein:                         The first time I ever hosted a website was on HostGator. And I learned it from Alex Becker. And he probably made a lot of money off that affiliate link that he was getting for-

Jared Smith:                       Was he speaking four times faster than he had to?

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, but at least I could understand what he was talking about.

Jared Smith:                       So you were getting eight times the amount of knowledge?

Ryan Klein:                         Oh, so this knowledge.

Jared Smith:                       I can already tell, this podcast, bear with us everyone, it’s going to be a good one, but it’s real scatterbrained because we’d had a couple of drinks beforehand. This is good.

Ryan Klein:                         No, well you haven’t. Let’s go back. So Jared-

Jared Smith:                       I have another question to ask.

Paul Warren:                     No.

Ryan Klein:                         How about you answer for every five questions you asked?

Jared Smith:                       Well you said you guys WordPress sites, right? Is that because you’re knowledgeable with that? Or is it an SEO benefit to it?

Ryan Klein:                         No.

Paul Warren:                     There’s a lot of reasons.

Jared Smith:                       Why not go Wix, essentially?

Ryan Klein:                         Well, because Wix makes you pay for every additional add-on of things.

Jared Smith:                       Like widgets?

Paul Warren:                     In an ideal world, you custom-made your website. Or just hard-coding it, because they’d load way faster and stuff, but with WordPress, there’s so many people that are developers, so it’s really cheap to find anything to be done custom, and there’s a plug in for like anything that you would possibly need. And like there’s just tons of free, easy themes. Wix, there’s just like not a lot of functionality built into it already. And if you want things, you have to pay extra for it. Both of those sites can rank in Google just fine. Google doesn’t care what your CMS is at all, Drupal sites rank, hard-coded websites rank, all the stuff ranks, [crosstalk 00:07:26]

Jared Smith:                       I’ve found that [inaudible 00:07:27] ranks.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, there’s tons of CMS out there. And Google, they’re just looking for meta-data, ranking information, content on page, that kind of stuff. And whatever gets you there is fine. But we use WordPress just because it’s the most popular CMS on the planet.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, good answer, good answer.

Ryan Klein:                         What do I answered?

Paul Warren:                     I don’t care.

Ryan Klein:                         I mean two reasons that make it a lot more succinct than needed: security and full customizability.

Paul Warren:                     Customizability.

Jared Smith:                       Customization.

Paul Warren:                     Wait, securability and customize.

Ryan Klein:                         I like adding a couple syllables in there-

Jared Smith:                       I know what you’re saying.

Ryan Klein:                         … so it sounds smart.

Jared Smith:                       And also you don’t have to pay for every little thing.

Ryan Klein:                         The thing is that the Wix site, at the end of the day, is never going to be completely your website. If you take it over to WordPress it is 100% no matter why you’re going to be able to, if you want to dig into PHP, cool, JavaScript, whatever customization, is the proper way of saying it.

Jared Smith:                       Are you guys good with that or do you outsource that?

Paul Warren:                     With what?

Jared Smith:                       Do you make your WordPress sites, essentially?

Ryan Klein:                         It just depends on how customized. There’s stuff that I can’t do that I would outsource for sure. But if it’s just a plain simple, I’ll just use a prebuilt theme and just run with that.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, it depends. The thing is that WordPress has come a long way. And maybe you’re talking about what it used to be like when you started off six, seven years ago, when it was susceptible to being hacks and malware and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, maybe you weren’t the best person to do it, but now with the WordPress way, with Patreon the way it now, you don’t really have to do that unless you want to do something insanely specific, you want to customize and alter plugins, and you want PHP a consultant, sure. Man, you see how Jared kind of just-

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah.

Paul Warren:                     … took over.

Ryan Klein:                         Hey, Jared, you know what? You answer my questions.

Jared Smith:                       Can I interview you guys for a while?

Ryan Klein:                         No, we’re going to talk about you. I actually think that, one day, we are going to be interviewed but today …

Paul Warren:                     Is not going to be that day.

Ryan Klein:                         Not tonight, no.

Paul Warren:                     No.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, that’s cool. So anyway, we’re going back to like how you actually got to, before you flipped the script. So yeah, you’re doing Too Good for Radio, you’re starting to get a grasp on what people want, content-wise. How did you end up at a hosting company anyway? Let’s get your backstory. Let’s turn this into a real story.

Jared Smith:                       Oh boy. I haven’t thought about this in a while, how I got the job there. It was actually a friend of mine, her name was Nikki and she was leaving and she was like, “You’d be good for this.” And it was essentially just to write on the blog.

Ryan Klein:                         So you like writing?

Jared Smith:                       I do. I’m one of the rare segments of the population, that I enjoy the blank page.

Ryan Klein:                         Now it’s my turn to go off the path just for a second.

Jared Smith:                       Sure.

Ryan Klein:                         Do you write other stuff? Do you write poetry? Do you write short stories?

Jared Smith:                       No, actually, I’m writing actually a podcast, a nonfiction one, like serial, something like that. No, I don’t do poetry or-

Ryan Klein:                         Don’t tell me you’re going to do another true crime.

Paul Warren:                     Do you just play it out?

Jared Smith:                       I was like film school, I wrote a script in college, all that stuff. So I do like writing all forms.

Ryan Klein:                         No wonder you’re friends with Andrew.

Jared Smith:                       There it is, yeah.

Ryan Klein:                         Cool. No one knows Andrew.

Paul Warren:                     He’s been a-

Jared Smith:                       I like how you bring up random people.

Paul Warren:                     He’s been on here, he’s been on here.

Ryan Klein:                         He has.

Jared Smith:                       Oh yeah, he was episode, the first three-

Ryan Klein:                         He was episode one through 40. Yeah, one of those three BC. Coll, so you’re there. You’re situated with an extremely important role. Honestly, nowadays content and how you present yourself at website conversions. You’re really in charge of integral part of your business’ growth. Why do you feel like-

Jared Smith:                       Tell my manager that, please.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah. Why do you feel like you deserve it?

Jared Smith:                       Deserve what?

Paul Warren:                     Okay, you don’t have to answer that question.

Jared Smith:                       What are you talking about?

Paul Warren:                     But I have an actual question for you.

Jared Smith:                       Thank you, finally.

Paul Warren:                     All right, so you’re in a very difficult niche to write about. So where do you start with keyword research? How do you come up with the ideas for your articles?

Jared Smith:                       Sure. That’s a great question. Finally a good one. Well, so, okay, where are we now? We’re in May. So last month was April. [crosstalk 00:11:24] And so one was tax season. And so I just look it up, try to find a problem, like what questions were being asked? So it’s like not a lot of people are again trying to find web hosting topics. So it was essentially like, “Can you tax deduct your web server?” essentially.

Paul Warren:                     So how did you find that people were asking that though?

Jared Smith:                       So what I did was I used, what did I use? I used, if you guys heard Uber Suggest?

Ryan Klein:                         Yes.

Paul Warren:                     Sure. We’ve talked about it on here before, I believe.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, you just ask the public too, because you can get a big free man that’s going to do this a lot.

Jared Smith:                       What do you mean ask the public?

Paul Warren:                     That’s a competitor of Uber Suggests.

Jared Smith:                       Oh, Uber Suggests?

Ryan Klein:                         Well, they’re buddies.

Paul Warren:                     Ryan doesn’t like it because it has a guy.

Jared Smith:                       Isn’t Keyword Planning the main one essentially? The Google Keyword Planner?

Paul Warren:                     No, nah.

Jared Smith:                       Oh no?

Paul Warren:                     That’s-

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, no.

Paul Warren:                     That’s used …

Jared Smith:                       Those are the two I use.

Paul Warren:                     That’s that paid search tool.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, you’re a tool. I’m [inaudible 00:12:32] Let’s get back in.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, so Uber Suggests though is what you use to do your keyword research.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah. So recently, the boss was like, “Hey, we need to rank for carrier-neutral data center. That’s the main thing.” And I was like, “Oh boy.” I’m like, “Well, that should be …”

Paul Warren:                     What’s the volume around that?

Jared Smith:                       Right, so I looked. It was only a hundred searches a month.

Ryan Klein:                         Was that internationally too? You have clients all over the place.

Jared Smith:                       Sure, eight countries.

Paul Warren:                     Let me ask you though, this is a little off topic, so just keep this in the back of your mind, do you have your website in different languages as well?

Jared Smith:                       Yes.

Paul Warren:                     You do?

Jared Smith:                       But I don’t handle any of it, because essentially it’s third party companies that we bought and they still maintain it. So I just do the U.S.

Ryan Klein:                         I love business acquisition, another day.

Paul Warren:                     Another day. Okay, all right, so you’re-

Jared Smith:                       Well, I thought there was off topic, or topics you’re not allowed to talk about.

Ryan Klein:                         What I do is I actually take the topic and then I research it and I talk and then I put it on top of this podcast. And you actually listened to two things at once.

Jared Smith:                       Hey, you stop asking, just answer a question here. What is going to be the title of this one? What kind of interview is this?

Ryan Klein:                         General questions. It’s going to be the first guest that wouldn’t shut the hell up.

Paul Warren:                     Our first guess banned from our show.

Ryan Klein:                         So you want to rank for that now? What are you doing?

Jared Smith:                       Say that again?

Ryan Klein:                         The carrier pigeon server.

Jared Smith:                       Oh, carrier pigeon. No, so I’m just saying what happened to me this month. So it was like carrier neutral data. I typed it, and our company wasn’t there. “Fix it,” essentially is what I was told. So what I do was I went to Uber Suggests in the Google keyword planner and I typed in that. I got all the variations of that. So when I wrote an article, I made sure-

Ryan Klein:                         What do you mean it’s working? I typed it and you didn’t rank for it. I didn’t find you.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Klein:                         Do you know how many times I’ve heard that like throughout my career?

Paul Warren:                     So is that what happened?

Jared Smith:                       That’s  actually what happened.

Ryan Klein:                         8,000,000 times.

Jared Smith:                       That’s exactly what happened. I was like, “Okay, well let me write this article and then let’s talk in a week.” And then yeah, so now we’re-

Paul Warren:                     A week? What are your expectations for that happening?

Jared Smith:                       Well this was a keyword, this example keyword only had, like we said a hundred searches a month. So that was an easy one to rank for. Well he’s like, “Okay, we have a new cloud product. Can we rank for cloud? And I’ll see you in a week.” And that’s not going to happen.

Paul Warren:                     No.

Ryan Klein:                         You’re like, “But do I have to compete with The Weather Channel?” So how do you set expectations with like the person that’s like, “I want you to do these things.” How do you measure success and how do you set expectations? Saying like “I need a week. I need three weeks. I need 10 weeks. I need four years? How do you …

Jared Smith:                       Great question, great question, Ryan. Luckily I have lenient. It’s nothing like that. There’s no deadline. It’s like, “By this time I need to see this.” But we meet once a month and I have sort of like a five page SEO report I send him, I show him. And he’ll be like, “Well we need to rank for dedicated server and we need this amount of click-through rate,” and stuff and I show him whether we hit it or not.

Paul Warren:                     So some of these keywords are really tough. And some of them you’ll never hit no matter what. being that there’s-

Jared Smith:                       With that attitude.

Paul Warren:                     Well you know what? It’s called being pragmatic. And there’s some things that’s like a lawyer coming to me and saying, “I want to rank for lawyer.”

Jared Smith:                       Sure.

Paul Warren:                     Like cloud, dedicated servers. These are the same keywords, there are hundreds of thousands.

Jared Smith:                       So when he comes to me and says, “We need to rank for cloud server by next week or something.” I’m going to say, “Obviously that’s not realistic,” but then I go to the long tail keywords and I say something like, “Orlando cloud server, yeah, is realistic. We can get that in the next time we speak.”

Paul Warren:                     That’s an interesting topic, now, that we’re going to segue into that real quick. Do you think for hosting, there’s any importance to having a geographic modifier to anything that you do?

Jared Smith:                       Yes, actually, because I actually wrote an article about this, like does your server location affect your ranking? And it has to do with latency, because I mean obviously we know that page speed is a big thing with Google. You want to be as close to your target market, to your clients, as possible.

Ryan Klein:                         Why do you want to be as close to them as possible?

Jared Smith:                       That’s what I just said.

Ryan Klein:                         I mean the latency between where your server is and where their website is.

Jared Smith:                       If your server’s in Orlando, you don’t want to hook up with a data center in England, because that has to go across the Atlantic Ocean. And so you want to be as close to your data center as possible. How you know that is pretty tough. Do you know where your data center is for?

Ryan Klein:                         I have no idea.

Paul Warren:                     They’re always in Las Vegas, Chicago …

Jared Smith:                       Utah

Ryan Klein:                         Utah.

Jared Smith:                       Utah’s the big one. Probably Utah.

Paul Warren:                     That’s also where all the credit card companies are, Utah. So they’re taking your credit card monies, they’re building data centers. I figured it all out.

Ryan Klein:                         Now I hate where this podcast is going.

Jared Smith:                       That’s where the NSA is. They’re there too, listening in, yeah, Bravo Utah.

Ryan Klein:                         They’re out of control, it must be a really cool city.

Paul Warren:                     So you think there is a direct correlation between rankings?

Jared Smith:                       Well, you’re talking about site speed stuff. I know Google definitely considers it being a huge factor. If your website takes eight seconds, Google’s going to be like, “Yeah, it’s taking a while.” But I think that actually a couple of surveys that showed even Google will give you a little bit of leeway. It’s about user experience too. People are like not going to wait for your website to load.

Paul Warren:                     That’s totally …

Jared Smith:                       You know, was it two seconds?

Paul Warren:                     Oh actually do you know people, they load other parts of … So there’s been a lot of studies with this. And so let’s say for whatever reason you’re not going to get past a certain point of like page speed, like load time, because it’s just the type of site that you have. That you do basically a skeleton type load, where you load the frame around it first and then all the other stuff comes later on. So it just at least gives like the appearance to people that it’s getting there, it’s \not just a blank page loading, and so they back out way less rates than that. I don’t know if you guys are checking or doing that but it’s really awesome. Especially if you have a really, really large site.

Jared Smith:                       The only thing I’ve heard about that is the websites that load everything above the fold, and then once you start scrolling down, it load more.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah. If you can do anything like that, it helps out huge with keeping people on the page.

Paul Warren:                     That’s great.

Jared Smith:                       Is that called lazy load or something?

Paul Warren:                     It’s really useful. Lazy Load, I think is exactly what it’s called.

Ryan Klein:                         lazy Load.

Paul Warren:                     Because I’m too lazy to think about what else it’d be called.

Ryan Klein:                         Might want to fact check that.

Paul Warren:                     No, I think it is. I don’t know. So what’s an article that you wrote where you’re like, “Holy crap. I just crushed it.”

Ryan Klein:                         What’s the most traffic you ever got into an article?

Jared Smith:                       Oh boy. Great question. Well like, so I might still be the top ranking for, if you type in “app store sucks”. Are you typing it in? It’s like App Store Sucks or Apple App Store Socks, because I really hated the Apple app store, and it was a thousand words on what they’re doing wrong and how they can improve it.

Paul Warren:                     That’s pretty sweet.

Jared Smith:                       And last time I checked I was still member one, I was like, “Oh that’s-”

Ryan Klein:                         Is that for your current job?

Jared Smith:                       Yeah

Ryan Klein:                         There’s an article in there [crosstalk 00:19:39]

Jared Smith:                       So I pretty much try to write, let’s say I do six a month. I try to do five for the company and one for myself where I’ll just bitch out something or highlight something that I like.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, like what’s the deal with Game of Thrones. It’s so crazy now.

Jared Smith:                       What Game of Thrones can tell you about your server.

Ryan Klein:                         I started calling people season eight episode three-ers when I completely think they’re idiots.

Jared Smith:                       Well you have to explain that further, I have no idea what-

Ryan Klein:                         Because that episode is so bad. That’s the episode everyone was going nuts about.

Jared Smith:                       Was that the one that was really dark?

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, the one that was dark, and where Arya does some stuff that no one makes sense.

Jared Smith:                       She does a spoiler.

Ryan Klein:                         So that’s why I call them season 8, episode three-ers.

Paul Warren:                     Dude, let’s not talk about Game of Thrones in this episode.

Jared Smith:                       Oh, okay, we’re done.

Paul Warren:                     I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole, so we’re going to talk about-

Ryan Klein:                         So that article might’ve been heavy for traffic, but what was an article that you did that was heavy on conversions?

Jared Smith:                       Okay. Well there was a recent one where I had to rank for Latin America data centers, and that was something that it was just like, “What?”

Ryan Klein:                         Oh, I know all about those.

Paul Warren:                     This is funny. I was just kind of random, yeah. Bring it on.

Jared Smith:                       But that was one that we saw a ton of people. I got to get them from the blog to the shopping cart essentially. And we saw a bunch of conversions on that and I was like, “Hell yeah.”

Ryan Klein:                         Hey Jared, listen up. Do you have a checklist that you go through every single time you create a page, where you make sure every single item on that checklist enhances or augments or betters your chances of conversions?

Jared Smith:                       Yes. I need to.

Ryan Klein:                         How did you finish my sandwich, there? I must have [crosstalk 00:21:21].

Paul Warren:                     You know, CTA is above the fold, things like that.

Jared Smith:                       Sure. I read somewhere too, that if you say in the first sentence, what the overall article’s going to be, and again, it’s like keyword stuffing. The average article’s 500 words. You can only have your keywords so many times, but as long as you get it in the first sentence and it’s going to rank, usually as long as it’s niching them.

Paul Warren:                     So, while we’re talking about conversions, one of the things that I did, at a previous company we did for every article, was given an estimated time to read the article. Overall, it’s going to be like five minutes to read this.

Ryan Klein:                         Do you like those? I think that they’re annoying.

Jared Smith:                       Are you talking about actually showing the time it takes to read?

Paul Warren:                     It’s pretty popular.

Ryan Klein:                         You tell them, you tell them [crosstalk 00:22:13].

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, it’s plenty popular lately.

Paul Warren:                     Well, it’s kind of funny because you said it probably takes about eight minutes. I said, “I bet I can do it in four.”

Ryan Klein:                         Good on you.

Paul Warren:                     I like to add videos and stuff into articles as well. I think that really, really enhances your time on page for it, but also your conversion rates, because it gives you two options to convert to.

Ryan Klein:                         That’s a good point, have you ever considered as another form of content, because people like other forms of content depending on what the preference is, about sitting down and doing a video?

Jared Smith:                       Oh, for sure. I mean we have a video marketer, yeah, that just does videos. And it’s like, I actually, again, I’m putting the questions on you guys. Okay, so we have a ton of videos and I’m like, I need to go back now and SEO these videos. Do you have any suggestions on stuff I can do to …

Paul Warren:                     To SEO videos?

Jared Smith:                       Yes. YouTube specifically.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah. I think that you should refer to our podcast on

Jared Smith:                       Oh, you have one.

Paul Warren:                     Did we do one of those.

Ryan Klein:                         … on how to do [crosstalk 00:23:11]

Paul Warren:                     I think we did.

Ryan Klein:                         We’ve done dozens.

Jared Smith:                       Can you sum it up in one minute, essentially? So just pretty much have a great description and then have a good screenshot picture.

Paul Warren:                     This is a checklist you can follow.

Ryan Klein:                         Where do they notice it, first of all? Are they YouTube videos?

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, yeah, they’re YouTube, yeah. They’re not our own they’re not VMEO.

Ryan Klein:                         There’s a lot of options on there.

Paul Warren:                     I did a YouTube video that got around, I think it’s close to 200,000 views now.

Jared Smith:                       Gee, 200,000?

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, for a company that I worked for. But there’s a lot of things.

Jared Smith:                       What do you attribute that to? Was it just good luck? Or is it like you know you did certain configured it.

Paul Warren:                     There ain’t no good luck in SEO.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, man, lots of skill.

Ryan Klein:                         There are a lot of variables.

Jared Smith:                       I attribute it to myself, and I’d like to thank me and me alone.

Ryan Klein:                         So let’s go through it: title, description, keyword, tags.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, the image …

Ryan Klein:                         Transcription.

Jared Smith:                       The image is something that-

Paul Warren:                     Transcription.

Jared Smith:                       We had a meeting about today. So I don’t know, like I don’t know where to begin with that.

Ryan Klein:                         They send to like images with people in them.

Jared Smith:                       Yes, okay.

Paul Warren:                     Do YouTube rewards. What’s weird is like YouTube will pick winners and losers.

Jared Smith:                       It’s YouTube doing, it’s not people clicking on the picture?

Paul Warren:                     It doesn’t really work like Google does, where it’s just algorithmic. There’s other stuff. They’ll literally pick, it’s like, why’s Pewdie pie? You know how many people like, like review video games and crap, but they picked him to be the winter for whatever reason.

Ryan Klein:                         Well, he was Swedish.

Paul Warren:                     But there’s conspiracies around that, who they pick to get it [crosstalk 00:24:45],

Jared Smith:                       And who they censor.

Paul Warren:                     You might be doing all the same stuff. What’s really important though is in the actual video itself, you want to say the keywords that you want. YouTube’s really smart now, they know what videos are about. They can even transcribed just the video without you giving that information.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, that’s a great point. Because originally, they’ll try to offer their own transcription when you’re done with it. And then it’ll be like, you can edit it to be smarter than an algorithm, but they’ll pick up the keywords, originally.

Paul Warren:                     So for this one video, I did all those things and I did some good keyword research. I had really good tags in it. I did all like the stuff that’s the bare minimum if you do a video for $10. It was very, very cheap, and we just got like the gears rolling and then all of a sudden it was like, 200,000. It’s just blew up. So it got consistently 10,000 a month, every month, for months and months and stuff. And it got about 50 leads a month actually off the video.

Jared Smith:                       Wow.

Paul Warren:                     Just the link in it. So it was pretty good. Yeah.

Jared Smith:                       50 leads a month? That’s awesome.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah. That’s hard to get leads from a YouTube video.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, actually almost completely written off video SEO as being a lead generator.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah. So we had that. We used a different video service on our website, because I don’t really think that the YouTube player looks particularly professional.

Paul Warren:                     And then also they make you keep the title in it, and you cannot remove the title, which looks like crap.

Jared Smith:                       That’s another thing.

Ryan Klein:                         What do you mean? You can’t edit the title after you publish?

Paul Warren:                     Well, back in the day, if you embed the YouTube video, you used to be able to remove the controls and [crosstalk 00:26:23] just have the video. And now like the title’s there and you can’t remove it, which is insane.

Jared Smith:                       So we use a different one. I’s actually the same one that like Moz uses, a bunch of other websites use, but you can do lead capturing within the video. So like a formal pop up at any time that you want during the video. Or you can stop the video halfway through, and it’s like, “Hey, give me your email if you want to watch the rest of the video.”

Paul Warren:                     [inaudible 00:26:44] we can use this stuff. You want to be able to take notes. You didn’t bring a notepad?

Ryan Klein:                         I need to go back and listen to your episode. I need to come for future episodes and just listen.

Jared Smith:                       And it syncs with Salesforce very easily. So you can track all of that information and attribute the lead back to where it’s coming from. So yeah, it’s actually a really, really good way to do video marketing. So I never use the same, I do a YouTube video that’s about that subject that I have a blog post about, and then I put a video on there through different player. So it’s like you get to the video or the article through Google, but you really don’t want to read all of that. Like sometimes I don’t want to read a thousand word article, and if there’s a video that’s just going to sum all that shit up really quickly. I’ll definitely watch it. I also like that people are using the phrase TLDR a lot more, because at first I thought I was obnoxious and I think it’s funny. So like TLDR.

Ryan Klein:                         So when you see a long article, you go to the end and see like did that sum it up for me?

Jared Smith:                       Sometimes people, just say the estimated time to read it is eight minutes, and say four minutes, the TLDR will be like listen, this is it in two paragraphs. If you want more elaboration.

Paul Warren:                     I would literally make like an H2 it’s like, “And if you don’t want to read this, watch this video below. [crosstalk 00:27:56]

Ryan Klein:                         TLDR, they’re funny.

Paul Warren:                     It’s hilarious.

Jared Smith:                       TLDR is at the top or at the bottom?

Paul Warren:                     [crosstalk 00:28:01]

Jared Smith:                       It’s at the top.

Paul Warren:                     It’s at the top, because I’m going to write a post if it’s at the bottom.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that’s how I know.

Ryan Klein:                         I’ve seen articles more and more starting to integrate TLDR, like either bullet form or a couple takeaways at the top.

Jared Smith:                       Well that’s smart too, because like they say you want to get your point across at the beginning, and  if you fancy yourself an arter, you’re like, “I’d like to weave a story.” They’re not going to know what this is about until halfway in or the end and stuff like that. That’s not the best for SEO. So that TLDR at the top, that’s something I might start to try. That’s an interesting idea.

Paul Warren:                     Plus you get to throw in your keywords pretty quickly, too.

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, absolutely.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah. They should put, for a TLDR, go to the middle, and then there’s the CTA in the middle.

Jared Smith:                       Send them on a scavenger hunt.

Ryan Klein:                         Right below the TLDR. like there you go.

Paul Warren:                     So if you were going to have a pop up on your website, what would your pop up say?

Jared Smith:                       [FRAZ 00:28:51]

Paul Warren:                     Would a pothole work?

Jared Smith:                       What do you mean? Like if I had jaredsmith.com.

Paul Warren:                     No, I’m not talking about your personal website, I’m talking about Host Time. So would it be a promotion? Would it be additional information? Would it be something trendy? Do you have any opportunities? Do you have popups?

Jared Smith:                       That’s a good question. Well, we don’t have popups, but I think I would try to, the popups could be targeted, localized. So if it was an Orlando company or something that was in, it’d be like, “Hey, we can take your servers out of the closet and bring them to our data center, essentially.”

Ryan Klein:                         So you’re going to take their servers and put them in your data center?

Jared Smith:                       That’s what we do.

Ryan Klein:                         But then that’s so bulky, they’re so big, they’re so outdated.

Jared Smith:                       Many companies just have their server on premises.

Paul Warren:                     Really? You just have a big warehouse with everyone’s outdated servers just chilling in there?

Jared Smith:                       Well we bring them to 21st century. What would your pop-up be if you had to choose?

Paul Warren:                     For SEO is Dead Cast?

Jared Smith:                       If you guys had a website.

Paul Warren:                     It would say, “Please download.”

Jared Smith:                       Download and subscribe.

Paul Warren:                     Also please rate us.

Ryan Klein:                         It might say, “Do you want bonus material? Just download the podcast again because there’s no other content.”

Jared Smith:                       Yeah, the TLDR of this podcast.

Ryan Klein:                         No. The TLDR is listen to the first two minutes and then nothing else.

Paul Warren:                     We can micro content here buddy.

Ryan Klein:                         So okay. I feel like there’s a lot more we can talk about, but we’re not going to.

Paul Warren:                     We’re having technical difficulties to be honest with you.

Ryan Klein:                         We’ll do a part two later.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, actually.

Ryan Klein:                         Part 2 actually makes complete sense.

Jared Smith:                       Where I’m going to interview you guys some more.

Ryan Klein:                         No.

Jared Smith:                       I want to interview you guys.

Ryan Klein:                         Stop it.

Paul Warren:                     You definitely asked more questions than we did.

Jared Smith:                       Mission accomplished.

Ryan Klein:                         Fifty nifty.

Paul Warren:                     That’s a first, though.

Ryan Klein:                         So now it’s starting to get a little quiet, because I’m waiting for you to wrap it there.

Jared Smith:                       Oh, you’re waiting for me to wrap up?

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah. All right.

Paul Warren:                     Well thank you so much for being on our show tonight.

Jared Smith:                       A pleasure.

Ryan Klein:                         I think that it felt like we’d been this an hour, but it’s only 30 minutes. It normally goes the other way around.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, that’s interesting.

Ryan Klein:                         That’s okay. It’s everyone’s fault. We met John Dawkins and [inaudible 00:31:00] today.

Paul Warren:                     Dude, they don’t want to hear about our sports fan hoods.

Ryan Klein:                         We used to talk about UCS stuff all the time.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, we’re going to do that. Well everyone listening, thank you so much. We appreciate all of our listeners out there and be sure to subscribe or like our podcast. That way we get better rankings in iTunes and things like that.

Jared Smith:                       I’m going to do that when I get home.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, we want to get all the rankings so we can quit our jobs and just do this.

Ryan Klein:                         Go into black hat world or go into words or go into Fiber or go into Legit, go into Conquer buy us packages. That’s our Patreon. Just send us a bunch of links that are not negative.

Paul Warren:                     We’re not making any money off of this, guys, doing this.

Ryan Klein:                         Actually, we’re losing a lot of money.

Paul Warren:                     Tons of money.

Ryan Klein:                         Not just a little bit.

Paul Warren:                     At least a hundred a year. That’s what it costs us.

Ryan Klein:                         Sounds about right.

Paul Warren:                     Hosts and stuff. We split it 50-50. But thanks so much for listening, guys. Thanks for being on as our guests. And so I’m Paul Warren.

Ryan Klein:                         And I’m Ryan Klein.

Paul Warren:                     And do you want to say your name too?

Jared Smith:                       Jared Smith.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah. Jared Smith.

Ryan Klein:                         Hey you.

Paul Warren:                     Hey you. Thank you being there.

Ryan Klein:                         Get over here.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah, but thanks for being on, and we appreciate it. And we’ll probably have a part 2 of this at some point.

Ryan Klein:                         Yeah, that’d be good.

Paul Warren:                     Yeah.

Ryan Klein:                         All right. Thanks so much. Bye everyone.

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